Freskin + Isabel (Buchan) Comyn. Isabel (daughter of John (7th\3rd Earl of Buchan) Comyn and Isabel (of Fife) Macduff) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Cheyne An Ancient Scottish Family at http://www.rootsweb.com/~cheyne/
An overview of the early Cheyne family at http://www.rootsweb.com/~cheyne/
"The second Reginald was also a staunch supporter of the Baliol claim tothe Crown of Scotland. He married Mary, daughter and co-heiress ofFreskin de Moravia (later Moray). He was Sheriff of Elgin in 1291 and in1292 of Inverness. He fought on the side of John Baliol at Dunbar in1296, but after the capture of his son, Reginald the third, he sworeallegiance to Edward. He later became one of Edward's Justiciars "beyondof the mountains". He would have been portrayed as one of the "bad guys"in the movie Braveheart."

From Doug Hickling 12th Feb 2002
"Thanks to information contained in R. W. Munro's THE MUNRO TREE (1734),at page 3, it is now possible to identify the Isobel (of Marishall)Keith, who married Hugh (9th of Foulis) Munro. The text of the 1734manuscript says that Isobel was the daughter to Keith Marishall, but, inhis accompanying notes, R. W. Munro points out that the even earlier(after 1673) manuscript compiled by George Martine of Clermont says thatIsobel was a daughter to the the Marischal of Scotland by Marion Cheyne.Munro, citing SP 6:33-34, notes that Mary or Mariota, daughter andco-heiress of Reginald de Cheyne of Inverugie married John Keith whoseuncle was Marishal in Bruce's time.

According to the SP article cited by R. W. Munro, John Keith married(dispensation dated 12 March 1368/9) Mariota (or Mary) de Cheyne,daughter--and co-heiress with her sister Jean [sic], wife of Nicholas deSutherland of Duffus--of Reginald de Cheyne of Inverugie, by his wifeMary. The article says that the latter Mary, the mother of the Mariota(or Mary) de Cheyne who married John Keith, was the eldest daughter andco-heiress of Freskin de Moravia of Duffus, but other sources say thatthe Mariota de Cheyne who married John Keith was the daughter of Reginaldde Cheyne, 4th of Inverugie, and that his parents were Reginald deCheyne, 3rd of Inverugie and his wife, Mary Moravia, the daughter ofFreskin (of Duffus) Moravia. John Keith's parents were Edward (Sir) deKeith and Isabel, daughter of Alexander de Sinton. Edward (Sir) servedas Mar
hall of Scotland and he was succeeded in the marshalcy by his elder son,William (Sir) de Keith, who was John's brother. See CP 8:471-472, SP6:30-34.

8. Following up on the previous point, it appears that there is a greateal of confusion regarding the Reginald Cheyne, who was the father of thetwo co-heiresses, who married, respectively, John Keith and NicholasSutherland... There is also a lot of confusion as to the daughters namesand which was the elder. I have summarized one of the SP articles above,but an earlier article at SP 3:191-192, says that Nicholas Sutherlandmarried Mary, the elder daughter and co-heiress of Reginald le Cheyne andMary, of Duffus. As noted above, the later SP article says that it wasJean who married Nicholas Sutherland. On the other hand, CP, at 12 (partI):543, says that Nicholas Sutherland married Mary, younger daughter andcoheir of Reginald le Cheyne, 4th of Inverugie, whose mother was Mary, ofDuffus, daughter of Freskin Moray, 3rd of Duffus. The implication isthat Mary, of Duffus, whom you list as Mary Moravia, was the husband ofReginald le Cheyne, 3rd of Inverugie, and that they were the parents ofReginald le Cheyne, 4th of Inverugie, who, by an unknown woman, becamethe father of the co-heiresses. I believe that the CP account is moreplausible as all the articles make clear that the co-heiresses were thoseof Reginald and not of their mother or grandmother. BURKE'S PEERAGE &BARONETAGE (106th edition 1999), at 893, has adopted the CP view, showingthat Alexander Sutherland married Mary, daughter and coheir of Reginaldle Cheyne, who brought him the lands of Duffus.

In an effort to resolve these conflicts, I looked at the draft edition ofJames Cheyne's THE CHEYNE FAMILY OF ABERDEENSHIRE, published in 1993. Itelephoned him to see if he had published a final edition and he referredme to the Cheyne Family Genealogyo Website at www.rootsweb.com/~cheyne/.The symbol after the first back slash is that wavy thing that is in theupper left corner of the keyboard. You won't find the website unless youuse both back slashes. This is a great looking website, and Mr. Cheynehas obviously taken a lot of care in setting it up. He franklyacknowledges that virtually all of the genealogical information is takenverbatim from A. Y. Cheyne's THE CHEYNE FAMILY IN SCOTLAND, published in1931. The latter work is not available through the Mormons but it is inthe collection of the New York Public Library, so I have arranged for myson, who lives in Manhattan, to make me a copy of its relevant parts.

The family line in which we are interested is set forth thusly on thewebsite except that I have adopted the spelling le Cheyne since to use leChen would cause the information to be unretrievable as no one wouldrecognize that le Chen is an early form of le Cheyne. Further, both SPand CP use the form le Cheyne in referring to Reginald (Sir) as well ashis daughters. For similar reasons, I have changed Stratherne toStrathearn:

1. William le Cheyne, born circa 1140
2. Bernard le Cheyne, I of Inverugie, born circa 1170
3. Reginald (Sir) le Cheyne, II of Inverugie, born circa 1200. Hisfirst wife
and the mother of his children was a daughter of William Comyn and
Marjorie, heiress of Fergus, Earl of Buchan.
4. Reginald (Sir) le Cheyne, III of Inverugie, born circa 1235. Hemarried
Mary de Moravia, and their eldest child was
5. Reginald (Sir) le Cheyne, IV of Inverugie, born circa 1270. Hemarried
Helen de Strathearn, daughter of Malise de Strathearn VII Earl of
Strathearn and Matilda. They had two daughters:
6a. Mariot le Cheyne, born circa 1335, married twice. She marriedfirst
John de Douglas and second she married about 1369 John de Keith.
6b. Marjory le Cheyne, born circa 1336, married NicholasSutherland.

To finish up suggested changes on the Cheynes, I note that you showChristian Cheyne, daughter of (Laird of Straloch) Cheyne. The latter isnamed Freskin le Cheyne, I of Straloch, born circa 1271 and is shown onthe fourth generation sheet available at the Cheyne Family GenealogyWebsite discussed above. He was the son of Reginald (Sir) le Cheyne, IIIof Inverugie and Mary de Moravia. Clicking onto Freskin le Cheyne's namebrings the information that he was married to Isabel Comyn. Four oftheir children are listed, including Christian Cheyne. You will notethat from this generation on the preceding the Cheyne is deleted.
9. Next, I suggest that you complete the line between Mary de Moravia,above, or Mary Moravia, as you call her, and Freskin. You already haveWalter(Lord Duffus) de Moravia in your GEDCON and you trace his ancestryback through Hugh (Lord Duffus) de Moravia, William son of Freskin, andfinally to Freskin. You need to hook up Walter (Lord Duffus) de Moraviato his granddaughter Mary Moravia. Here is the missing link: Waltermarried Euphemia, daughter of Ferquhard McTaggart, 1st Earl of Ross.Walter died about 1263. SP 7:231-232; SP 8:321; Burke's B&P (1999)2769. Walter and Euphemia had a son Freskin (of Duffus) Moravia, whomyou already have in your GEDCOM, and he was the father of Mary Moravia.I note that you list Ferquhard as the 2nd instead of the 1st Earl of Rosswhich is fine with me, but I suggest that you add Euphemia, married toWalter de Moravia, Lord of Duffus, 1224-1262 to the list of his childrenshown on your ID sheet I00887.

Compiled by Douglas Hickling, Dhhic@comcast.net, 516 Blair Avenue,Piedmont, CA 94611. 1 February 2002


SP=THE SCOTS PEERAGE was edited by James (Sir) Balfour Paul. 9 volumes.Volume 1 published in 1904 and volume 8 in 1911. Volume 9, before 1925(includes the index)

CP= THE COMPLETE PEERAGE
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited
Kingdom : by G. E. Cokayne (Hardcover - March 2001]

THE MUNRO TREE a Genealogy and Chronology of the Munro's of Foulis andother Families of the Clan. A manuscript compiled in 1734 edited withIntroduction and Notes by R.W Munro. Printed for subscribers , Edinburgh1978

Reginald + Mary (of Duffus) De Moravia. Mary (daughter of Freskin (3rd of Duffus) De Moravia and Johnanna of Strathnavair) was born about 1245; and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

"...hook up Walter (Lord Duffus) de Moravia to his granddaughter MaryMoravia. Here is the missing link: Walter married Euphemia, daughter ofFerquhard McTaggart, 1st Earl of Ross. Walter died about 1263. SP7:231-232; SP 8:321; Burke's B&P (1999) 2769. Walter and Euphemia had ason Freskin (of Duffus) Moravia, whom you already have in your GEDCOM,and he was the father of Mary Moravia. I note that you list Ferquhard asthe 2nd instead of the 1st Earl of Ross which is fine with me, but Isuggest that you add Euphemia, married to Walter de Moravia, Lord ofDuffus, 1224-1262 to the list of his children shown on your ID sheetI00887"

From Douglas Hickling, Dhhic@comcast.net, 516 Blair Avenue, Piedmont, CA94611. 1 February 2002

SP=THE SCOTS PEERAGE was edited by James (Sir) Balfour Paul. 9 volumes.Volume 1 published in 1904 and volume 8 in 1911. Volume 9, before 1925(includes the index)

CP= THE COMPLETE PEERAGE
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited
Kingdom : by G. E. Cokayne (Hardcover - March 2001]

John + Isabel (of Fife) Macduff. Isabel (daughter of Duncan (9Th Earl of Fife) Macduff and Joan\Johanna (of Gloucester) De Clare) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Cheyne "An Ancient Scottish Family" at http://www.rootsweb.com/~cheyne/
In the link "An overview of the early Cheyne family" it says:

"In 1267, the first of three Le Chens to be named Reginald wasChamberlain of Scotland. He married a sister of John Comyn, Lord ofBadenoch, whose wife Margaret was the sister of King John Baliol. Hisbrother Henry was Bishop of Aberdeen. Reginald, the first, was Thane(similar to an Earl) of Fermartyn. Fermantyn is that part ofAberdeenshire that is south of the River Ythan. Buchan is that portionthat is north of the Ythan. Both run to the west into modern midBanffshire. ""There are three books that chronicle the rise and fall ofthe Cheyne family that all serious researchers should consult:

R. W. L. Chesney, Le Fief de Quesneto, published in 1962 and 1975, tracesthe families now known as Cheyne, Cheney, Cheyney and Chesney from theirNorman roots to the England and later Scotland.

A. Y. Cheyne, The Cheyne Family in Scotland, published in 1931, tracesthe "landed family" from the mid 1100's to their end in the 1600's.

W. D. Cheyne-MacPherson, F.S.A.(Scot), The Cheyne of Inverugie, Esslemontand Arnage and Their Descendants, published 1943, traces the cadet familyof John Cheyne, in Claymires, Ellon circa 1600 to modern times. Includedare the families that are now in Edinburgh, Australia and New Zealand. "

also
James Cheyne's THE CHEYNE FAMILY OF ABERDEENSHIRE, published in 1993.

Reginald married (of Buchan) Comyn about 1235. (of (daughter of William (Earl of Buchan) Comyn and Marjorie\Margaret Countess of Buchan) was born about 1210; died about 1270. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

A. Y. Cheyne's THE CHEYNE FAMILY IN SCOTLAND, published in 1931, saysthe wife of this Reginald (Sir) was the daughter of William Comyn andMarjorie heiress on Fergus Earl of Buchan and she was born circa 1235.



However at Cheyne "An Ancient Scottish Family" athttp://www.rootsweb.com/~cheyne/
In the link "An overview of the early Cheyne family" it says:

"In 1267, the first of three Le Chens to be named Reginald wasChamberlain of Scotland. He married a sister of John Comyn, Lord ofBadenoch, whose wife Margaret was the sister of King John Baliol. Hisbrother Henry was Bishop of Aberdeen. Reginald, the first, was Thane(similar to an Earl) of Fermartyn. Fermantyn is that part ofAberdeenshire that is south of the River Ythan. Buchan is that portionthat is north of the Ythan. Both run to the west into modern midBanffshire. "

Freskin + Johnanna of Strathnavair. Johnanna and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

"I suggest that you add another daughter, "Elena," who has beenidentified in SP2:218 and 256 as the wife of William (Sir) de Brechin andthe mother of their son David (Sir) of Brechin."

From Douglas Hickling, Dhhic@comcast.net, 516 Blair Avenue, Piedmont, CA94611. 1 February 2002

SP=THE SCOTS PEERAGE was edited by James (Sir) Balfour Paul. 9 volumes.Volume 1 published in 1904 and volume 8 in 1911. Volume 9, before 1925(includes the index)

CP= THE COMPLETE PEERAGE
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited
Kingdom : by G. E. Cokayne (Hardcover - March 2001]

Under "Buchan", Vol 1, (# II, page 374)
The Complete Peerage
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited Kingdom. Extant, Extinct or Dormant. By G. E. Cokayne. 2000,SuttonPublishing Ltd, Gloucester.

Alexander + Elizabeth De Quincy. Elizabeth (daughter of Roger (2nd Earl of Winchester) De Quincy and Helen De Galloway) died after Apr 1282. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Under "Fife", Vol 2, (# V, pages 369-380)
The Complete Peerage
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited Kingdom. Extant, Extinct or Dormant. By G. E. Cokayne. 2000,SuttonPublishing Ltd, Gloucester.

Duncan + Joan\Johanna (of Gloucester) De Clare. Joan\Johanna (daughter of Gilbert The Red (3rd Earl Ofgloucester) De Clare and Alice De Lusignan) was born about 1268; died after 1322. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]