John married Ellen (of Mar) Mar about 1320. Ellen (daughter of Gratney \Garnait (7Th Earl of Mar) Mar and Christina (of Carrick) Bruce) was born about 1300; died after 1392. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Doug Hickling. Dhhic@comcast.net, points out that in
A HISTORY OF THE CLAN CAMPBELL vol. I, by Alastair Campbell of Airds

"At page 83, the author says that ANE ACCOMPT got confused about Helena"saying she was a daughter of a son of the Earl of Lennox; in fact, shewas almost certainly the daughter of John (Sir) Monteith, Robert Bruce'sformer enemy and then loyal supporter, "


I believe that the John (Sir) Menteith whom you list as Keeper of theCastle, and as the father of Helena Menteith, who married Colin (Sir)(Lord of Lochow) Campbell, is the same person whom you list also as both(1) John (Sir) (of Rusky & Knapdale) Menteith, father of Joan Menteith,who married Malise 7th Earl of Strathearn and as (2) John (Sir) (ofRusky) Menteith, whose daughter Joanna Menteith married Sir Maurice (9thEarl of Strathearn) Moray and became the mother of Joan/Joanna (ofStrathearn) Moray. The name of John (Sir) Menteith lives in infamy inScotland because of his role in turning William Wallace over to theEnglish. SP 6:132 makes clear that John (Sir) was possessor of the landsof Rusky and perhaps also of Knapdale. His son, John (Sir) Menteith,married Ellen, daughter of Gratney, Earl of Mar, and their daughterChristian married Edward (Sir) Keith of Sinton, by whom she had adaughter Janet, wife first of David (Sir) Barclay of Brechin, and secondof Thomas (Sir) Erskine. The SP article says that Joanna is the only oneof the daughters of the earlier John (Sir) Menteith who can be tracedwith certainty. She was married first to Malise, seventh Earl ofStrathearn, second to John Campbell, Earl of Atholl, and third to SirMaurice of Moray, created Earl of Strathearn in 1344, by whom she had adaughter Joanna, married first to Thomas (Sir) Moray of Bothwell andsecond to Archibald (Sir) Douglas, 3rd Earl of Douglas.

In THE RED BOOK OF MENTEITH, by William Fraser (1880), at page 460, it isstated that, in addition to Joana, who married two of the Earls ofStrathearn, there was another unnamed daughter who married Archibald(Sir) Campbell of Lochaw. This unnamed daughter has been identified byAlastair Campbell of Airds, in his HISTORY OF CLAN CAMPBELL, Volume I,(2000), at 83, as Helena, who married Colin (Sir) (Lord of Lochow)Campbell, and who was almost certainly the daughter of John (Sir)Menteith. When you consolidate all three of these John (Sir) Menteithsinto one person, I suggest that you might want to identify him as ofRusky, since his being the keeper of Dumbarton Castle, to which he wasappointed in 1304, leading to his role in the capture of Wallace in 1305,was only one of the activities in his career. He no longer commanded thefortress after 1307, and became a firm supporter of King Robert I. In1320, he joined other Scottish nobles in the famous letter to the Pope inwhich they defended the right of their king and sought the Pontiffssupport on behalf of peace with England. Later, he was sent to Englandas one of the envoys who, in 1323, negotiated a treaty of peace withEngland, which endured for 13 years, and under which England recognizedScotland as an independent kingdom.


From Douglas Hickling, Dhhic@comcast.net, 516 Blair Avenue, Piedmont, CA94611. 1 February 2002

SP=THE SCOTS PEERAGE was edited by James (Sir) Balfour Paul. 9 volumes.Volume 1 published in 1904 and volume 8 in 1911. Volume 9, before 1925(includes the index)

CP= THE COMPLETE PEERAGE
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited
Kingdom : by G. E. Cokayne (Hardcover - March 2001]

Gratney married Christina (of Carrick) Bruce in 1292. Christina (daughter of Robert (Earl of Carrick) De Bruce and Marjorie (Margaret) Countess of Carrick) was born about 1282; died in 1356. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Walter + Maria Countess of Menteith. Maria (daughter of Mauritius (Maurice) 3rd Earl of Menteith) died before 1286. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

or Mary

Donald + Helen (Princess of N Wales) Llywelyn. Helen (daughter of Llywelyn 'The Great' Prince of Wales and Tangwystyl Goch) died after 1291. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Robert married Marjorie (Margaret) Countess of Carrick in 1271. Marjorie (daughter of Neil (2nd Earl of Carrick) Galloway and Margaret (Fitzalan) Stewart) was born about 1252; died in 1292. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

"Carrick" Complete Peerage, Vol 1 (#III, pages 55-61)
THE COMPLETE PEERAGE
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited Kingdom. Extant, Extinct or Dormant. By G. E. Cokayne. 2000,SuttonPublishing Ltd, Gloucester.