John married Jane Gray in Sep 1609. Jane (daughter of Patrick 6th Lord Gray and Mary (of Orkney) Stewart) died on 17 Aug 1640. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

1. Mary Wemyss and died.
2. David (2nd Earl of Wemyss) Wemyss died in Jul 1679.
3. Anne Wemyss died on 20 Sep 1643.
4. Jean Wemyss was born before 1674; died before 10 May 1662.

John married Mary (of Doune) Stewart in Aug 1581. Mary (daughter of James (1st Lord Doune) Stewart and Margaret (of Argyll) Campbell) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

David married Cecilia Ruthven on 7 May 1556. Cecilia (daughter of William (2nd Lord) Ruthven and Janet (Baroness Dirleton) Halyburton) was born in 1546; died on 8 Jul 1589. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

James married Margaret (of Argyll) Campbell on 11 Jan 1563-1564. Margaret (daughter of Archibald (4th Earl of Argyll) Campbell and Margaret (of Menteith) Graham) died in Feb 1571-1572. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John married Margaret (of Redhall) Otterburn on 20 Oct 1534. Margaret (daughter of Adam (Sir) (of Redhall) Otterburn) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William married Janet (Baroness Dirleton) Halyburton in 1515. Janet (daughter of Patrick (5th Baron Dirleton) Halyburton and Margaret (of Pumpherston & Adeston) Douglas) was born about 1500; died about 1560. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

James + Margaret (of Byres) Lindsay. Margaret (daughter of John (3rd Lord Lindsay of Bryres) Lindsay and Marion (of Lamington) Baillie) died before Feb 1577. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Died:
Archibald Campbell died between 21 August 1558[3] and 2 December 1558 in Dulnynn, Scotland. He was buried at Kilmun Parish Church in Cowal, Scotland

Archibald married Margaret (of Menteith) Graham on 21 Apr 1541. Margaret (daughter of William (3rd Earl of Menteith) Graham and Margaret (of Barnbougle) Moubray) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

David married Katherine Sinclair in 1512. Katherine (daughter of Henry (3rd Lord) Sinclair and Margaret (of Bothwell) Hepburn) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William, + Catherine Buttercask. Catherine was born about 1483; and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Patrick + Margaret (of Pumpherston & Adeston) Douglas. Margaret (daughter of James (of Pumpherston and Adeston) Douglas) was born in 1482; and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

????The Queen Mother (Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon), Queen Elizabeth II, Prince Charles, and Princes William and Henry Windsor are descendants.

Andrew + Margaret Kennedy. Margaret (daughter of John 2nd Lord Kennedy and Elizabeth (of Huntly) Gordon) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John + Marion (of Lamington) Baillie. Marion (daughter of Sir William (of Lamington) Baillie and Marion Seton) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Below from
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=thomasholme&id=I4260
Ancestors of Thomas Ross Holme Back to Adam and Eve
at
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=thomasholme
Contact: Thomas Holme


Title: 3rd Earl of Argyll
Sex: M
Death: BEF 1529
Note: 3rd Earl, son of Archibald. He was married to Lady Jane Gordon,eldest daughter of Alexander, third Earl of Huntly, they had three sonsand a daughter. Their sons were, Archibald, fourth Earl of Argyll; John,ancestor of the Campbells of Lochnell, of which house the Campbells ofBalerno, and Stonefield are cadets; and Alexander, dean of Moray. Colinwas, immediately after his accession to the earldom, appointed by thecouncil to assemble an army and proceed against Lauchlan Maclean ofDowart, and other Highland chieftains, who had broken out intoinsurrection, and proclaimed Sir Donald of Lochalsh Lord of the Isles.Owing to the powerful influence of Argyll, the insurgents submitted tothe regent, after strong measures had been adopted against them. In 1517Sir Donald of Lochalsh again appeared in arms, but being deserted by hisprinciple leaders, he effected his escape. Soon after, on his petitionalso in 1517 Colin was appointed Royal Lieutenant over all the Isles andadjacent mainland by Regent Albany. For some years the Isles remainedpeaceful and Colin employed this interval in extending his influenceamong the chiefs and in promoting the sway and importance of his clan,being assisted thereto by his brothers, Sir John Calder of Calder, sodesigned after his marriage with the heiress, and Archibald Campbell ofSkipnish. On the escape of king James V, then in his seventeenth year,from the power of the Douglass, in May 1528, Colin was one of the firstto join his majesty at Stirling. He afterwards received an ampleconfirmation of the hereditary sheriffship of Argleshire and of theoffices of justiciary of Scotland and master of the household, by whichthese offices became hereditary in his family. He had the commission ofjustice-general of Scotland renewed 25th October 1529. Colin died eitherin 1535 or in 1530.
Change Date: 15 SEP 2001 at 13:00:59

Colin married Jane (of Huntly) Gordon before 28 Feb 1507. Jane (daughter of Alexander (3rd Earl of Huntly) Gordon and Joanna (Jean) (of Atholl) Stewart) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William married Margaret (of Barnbougle) Moubray before Jun 1521. Margaret (daughter of John (of Barnbougle) Moubray) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

David married Euphemia Lundy about 11 May 1493. Euphemia (daughter of John (Sir) (of That Ilk) Lundin and Elizabeth Forrester) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Henry + Margaret (of Bothwell) Hepburn. Margaret (daughter of Adam (Master of Hailes) Hepburn and Helen Home) was born about 1462; and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William married Isobel Levington in 1553. Isobel and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

George + Mariot. and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John + Elizabeth (of Huntly) Gordon. Elizabeth (daughter of Alexander Seton (1st Earl of Huntly) Seton and Elizabeth Crichton) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John + Daughter B Stewart. Daughter (daughter of Robert (1st Lord of Lorn) Stewart and Joan Or Margaret (of Albany) Stewart) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William married Marion Seton about 1430. Marion (daughter of John (Sir) Seton of Seton and Katherine Sinclair) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Archibald + Elizabeth (of Lennox) Stewart. Elizabeth (daughter of John, Lord Darnley (10th Earl of Lennox) Stewart and Margaret Montgomerie) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Alexander + Joanna (Jean) (of Atholl) Stewart. Joanna (daughter of John (1st Earl of Atholl) Stewart and Margaret (Fair Maid of Galloway) Douglas) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Alexander + Margaret Buchanan. Margaret (daughter of Walter Buchanan of That Ilk 14th of Buchanan and Isabelle Graham) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Walter Buchanan of that ilk, 14th of Buchanan (d 1526)
m. (before 26.11.1463) Isabelle Graham (dau of William Gr
aham, 2ndLord)

"The following were reported by 'Strathendrick' but not by BLG1952.
E. Margaret Buchanan
m. Alexander Graham, 2nd Earl of Menteith (d before 27.02.1536-7)
F. Elizabeth Buchanan
m. (1492) William Stirling, 11th of Cadder, 2nd of Lettyr (d 1517)
The following were reported by BLG1952 but not by 'Strathendrick'.
G. daughter
m. Lamond of Lamond
H. daughter
m. (22.06.1486) John Campbell of Ardkinglas (b c1460)"

From Stirnet Genealogy athttp://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/bb4fz/buchanan02.htm
Main sources:
(1) "Strathendrick and its Inhabitants from Early Times" by John GuthrieSmith, published in Glasgow in 1896
(2) BLG1952 (Murray-Buchanan of Leny).

John + Christian (of Saltoun) Abernethy. Christian (daughter of Lawerence (1st Lord Saltoun) Abernethy and Margaret) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John + Elizabeth Forrester. Elizabeth and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Christina Leslie. Christina (daughter of George (1st Earl of Rothes) Leslie and Christina (of Dirleton) Halyburton) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Adam married Helen Home about 2 Feb 1449. Helen (daughter of Alexander (1st Baron) Home and Marion Lauder) died after 1513. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Patrick + Miss Cranston. Miss (daughter of Thomas (Sir) (of That Ilk) Cranstoun) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John + Janet Seton. Janet (daughter of William (Sir) (of That Ilk) Seton and Janet (of March) Dunbar) died after 1493. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Walter + Elizabeth Arnot. Elizabeth (daughter of William (or Anot) Arnot) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Gilbert + Katherine Maxwell. Katherine (daughter of Herbert (of Caerlaverock) 1st Lord Maxwell and Janet Herries) was born in 1410; and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Later Gordon

Alexander married Elizabeth Crichton before 18 Mar 1426. Elizabeth (daughter of Sir William (Chancellor) 1st Lord Crichton and Agnes) died on 9 Jun 1479. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Christina De Keith. Christina (daughter of William (Sir)(Great Marischal Scotland) De Keith and Margaret (of Touchfraser) Fraser) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Robert married Joan Or Margaret (of Albany) Stewart on 27 Sep 1397. Joan (daughter of Robert (Earl of Fife & Duke of Albany) Stewart and Margaret (Countess of Menteith) Graham) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John married Katherine Sinclair before 8 Mar 1393. Katherine (daughter of William (Sir) (of Hermanstoun) Sinclair) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

For the sources of information, see in this file under "INFORMATION,Sources of" and also "INFORMATION, General Clan Genealogy ".

Which includes
Royal and Noble Genealogical Data on the Web
http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/public/genealogy/
Index to royal Genealogical Data - ordered by lastname" atwww.dcs.hull.ac.uk/public/genealogy/royal/gedx.html
Peerages in Order of Precedence atwww.dcs.hull.ac.uk/public/genealogy/royal/peerage.html
Author: Brian Tompsett
This contains a huge amount of information including a great deal onBritish Peer's lineages, and Royal families of the many countries.
&
Stirnet Genealogy
Families Database
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/genfam.htm
This has a huge amount of information on hundreds (and rapidlyincreasing), mostly landed, families. It is more "user friendly" thanmost in that it shows many generations on one page.
&
BURKE'S Genealogical and Heraldic History of the PEERAGE BARONETAGE ANDKNIGHTAGE.
Edited by Peter Townend. Burke's Peerage Limited, London
"Burke's Peerage" popular name.

Colin married Isabel\Elizabeth (of Lorn) Stewart about 1453. Isabel\Elizabeth (daughter of John (2nd Lord of Lorn) Stewart and Florence\Fingula\Flora (of Ross) Macdonald) was born about 1437; died on 26 Oct 1510. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John, married Margaret Montgomerie on 15 May 1438. Margaret (daughter of Alexander 1st Lord Montgomerie and Margaret (of Kilmarnock) Boyd) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Note Annabella (Princess) Stewart previously shown as mother of most of2nd Earl's children.
Below from
Doug Hickling
Dhhic@comcast.net

"I suggest a major revision...""for George (2nd Earl of Huntly) Gordonbecause the authorities show scant reason for attributing more than onechild to the earl's marriage to Annabella Stewart.

According to SP 6:528-531, Ferrerius, the early Gordon historian wholived with a member of the family during the mid-1500s (see SP 4:533),was of the opinion that Elizabeth Hay was the mother of all of the futuresecond earl's sons and that only Isabel was a daughter of PrincessAnnabella.

The SP article says that the future earl married Annabella before 10March 1459-60, but, after six years of marriage and no male children,Huntly directed his affections toward Elizabeth Hay. In a writ dated 12May 1466, the future earl "swore on the Gospels that he would have no'actual delen' with the lady until he could have her to wife lawfully."This writ is among the Slains charters transmitted by the Earl of Errollto the General Register House, but it does not seem to have beenpublished.
The SP article on Hay, Earl of Erroll, at 3:565, cites this writ as acontract for the marriage of Elizabeth Hay to George, Lord Gordon.

The SP article at 4:529 says that, because John Riddell (1785-1862)inadvertently quoted the date of this writ as 12 May 1476 instead of 12May 1466, much confusion was caused among subsequent scholars as itpostponed the date of the earl's marriage to Elizabeth to 1476 or later,making Ferrerius's statements that she was the mother of the earl's sonsappear to be chronologically impossible.

The 19th century authorities, such as Alexander Sinclair's 1871 articlein THE HERALD AND GENEALOGIST, volume 6: 595-597, cited in CP 6: 677,note a, quotes a marriage contract between John, Earl of Atholl andGeorge Gordon, second earl of Huntly dated 14 October 1474. The contractprovided "Alexander, son and apparent heir to the said George is to marryand have to wife, as soon as he arrives to lawful age, Joan, daughter ofthe said John, and failing of the said Alexander, Adam the son of thesaid George, and so forth from son to son lawfully gotten, or for to begotten by the said George, etc.." Sinclair argued that, since, as hethought erroneously, the earl did not marry Elizabeth Hay until 1476, twoyears after the date of the contract, all of the second earl's sons wereby Annabella. Sinclair concluded not only that Elizabeth had had nochildren at all by Huntly, but also that Ferrerius "who is seldommistaken" was wrong in making all three sons Elizabeth's offspring.

At 4:529, the SP article notes that Huntly's divorce from Annabella waspronounced at
Aberdeen on 24 July 1471, granted on the ground that Elizabeth Dunbar,his first wife, was related in the fourth degree of consanguinity toAnnabella. Earl George moved almost immediately to marry Elizabeth Hay,the banns being published on 4, 11, and 18 August 1471 at the church atFyvie. At page 529, note 2, the same article states that, based upon themarriage date of 1471, Ferrerius's statement is "now seen to be correctthat she was the mother of the Earl's sons." SP concludes that ElizabethHay was the mother of the earl's sons and of some of the daughters, but,based upon Ferrerius, shows only Isabel to have been Annabella's daughter.
In its entry for Alexander, third Earl of Huntly, at 4:531, SP explainsthat the fact that Alexander was sitting in Parliament in 1485 and as oneof the Lords of the Articles would tend to support the view thatAnnabella was the earl's mother. On the other hand, SP seems to havefound even more compelling evidence that Elizabeth Hay was Alexander'smother based upon (1) a charter of 21 February 1504-5 to Elizabeth,Countess of Huntly, in which "she is distinctly referred to as 'mother'of Alexander, Earl of Huntly," and (2) at the earl's request, on 4 July1492, the divorce of Lady Annabella and the publication in 1471 of thebanns of his father and Elizabeth Hay were recorded in the ConsistorialCourt of Aberdeen, "a proceeding he would hardly have taken had he beenthe son of the Princess."

CP 6:676-677, says that the identity of the mother of Alexander Gordon,3rd Earl of Huntly, is "very doubtful," and generally quotes from the SParticle discussed above. CP accepts 24 July 1471 as the date of thedivorce of Annabella and the second earl and agrees that George Gordon,the second earl, remarried in 1471, shortly after his divorce. At thecarryover note on p. 677, CP says that Annabella apparently obtained adivorce from the second earl because of his "carnal copulation" withElizabeth Hay. This raises, without resolving, the issue of whether eachparty obtained a divorce against the other.

One could conclude that the earl's marital intimacy with Annabella hadalready ended by 12 May 1466 when he had entered into a contract to marryElizabeth Hay, even though he promised his wife on the Gospels that hewould not have "actual delen" with Elizabeth until he was free to marryher. Alexander Gordon, 3rd Earl Huntly, may well have been born toElizabeth Hay in 1466 or earlier, a birth which was legitimated by hersubsequent marriage to Huntly following the publication of banns.Alexander's subsequent insistence on recording his father's divorce fromAnnabella and of the publication of the banns leading up to his father'smarriage to Elizabeth may have been intended to show Alexander'slegitimacy. Further, had Alexander been born by 1466, his attendance inParliament in 1485 would not seem unduly premature.

Brian Tompsett agrees with SP that the second earl married Annabellabefore 10 March 1459-60. On his sheet for Gordon, George of Huntly2nd, Tompsett lists all four of the earl's sons and two of his daughtersas children of Annabella. He agrees that the earl and Elizabeth Hay weremarried in August 1471 and assigns three daughters to this marriage. Hisnote cites CP 6:677, but that article mentioned above says only that theidentity of the third earl's mother is "very doubtful," and says nothingat all about the identity of the mother of the earl's other children.Tompsett also sets forth somewhat contradictory information on his sheetfor Stuart, Annabella (Jean) where he lists ten children: 5 sons--one ofwhom seems to appear twice--and 5 daughters.

Stirnet under "Gordon02" states in its introduction that the Gordonfamily may have falsely claimed descent from Annabella because of theprestige that resulted from a royal descent, but recognizes that thesecond earl's divorce from Annabella may have been related to the absenceof male children. Stirnet..." (athttp://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/gg/gordon02.htm) "adopts thearticle appearing in the 1934 edition of BURKE'S PEERAGE, apparently alsoaccepting 1476, instead of 1471, as the date of the earl's marriage toElizabeth Hay.

Whatever may have been BURKE'S position with regard to the mother of theearl's children in 1934, the current 106th edition of BURKE'S PEERAGE &BARONETAGE, at 1480, shows the second earl's three wives and his marriageto Elizabeth Hay in August 1471, but it declines to identify the motherof any of the earl's four sons and three daughters listed in the article.
Probably the last and most authoritative word on Annabella's children asthe
Countess of Huntly belongs to Alison Weir in BRITAIN'S ROYAL FAMILIES, at232. She regards Isabel as the only probable child of Annabella'smarriage to the earl. She says that "Annabella was also possibly, butimprobably," the mother of Janet, Elizabeth, Margaret, and Agnes. Weirshows no sons resulting from this marriage, and says that it is "highlyimprobable" that Alexander, 3rd Earl of Huntly, was her son. Obviously,if Alexander was not Annabella's child, then neither were the youngersons and daughters. Without mentioning him, Weir seems generally toagree with Ferrerius in identifying Annabella's children by the secondearl. My own view is that, had Riddell not erroneously copied the dateof the 1466 writ as 1476 or had Elizabeth Hay been the royal princessinstead of Annabella, the Gordon family historians would have continuedto follow Ferrerius.

I note that of the 70 gedcoms available through Rootsweb, 63 of themaccept Annabella as the mother of the 3rd earl and only seven hold outfor Elizabeth Hay, so you have a lot of company, although I suspect thatmuch of the support for Annabella is due to her royal connections. Ialso think that very few of these gedcom owners have done any research onthe matter, and, like the Gordon/Huntly family, are happy to endorse adescent from King James I."
Douglas Hickling
Dhhic@comcast.com
516 Blair Avenue
Piedmont CA 94611
(August 2003)

SP = Scots Peerage
CP = The Complete Peerage by G E Cokyane

George married Elizabeth (of Erroll) Hay on 18 Aug 1471. Elizabeth (daughter of William (1st Earl of Erroll) 2nd Lord Hay and Beatrice Douglas) died after 27 Jun 1509. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John married Margaret (Fair Maid of Galloway) Douglas in 1459. Margaret (daughter of Archibald 5th Earl of Douglas and Euphemia (Countess of Strathearn) Graham) died in 1475. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Patrick + Isobel (of Mar) Erskine. Isobel (daughter of Thomas (13th Earl of Mar, 2nd Lord) Erskine and Janet\Elizabeth Douglas) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Walter married Isabelle Graham before 26 Nov 1463. Isabelle (daughter of William 2nd Lord Graham and Anne (of Angus) Douglas) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

"Isabella (?) Graham
BLG1952 (Murray-Buchanan of Leny) shows Walter's wife as a daughter ofLord Graham. Dates indicate that it was of the 2nd Lord. John GuthrieSmith's book "Strathendrick and its inhabitants from early times",published by James MacLehose and Sons in 1896, identifies Walter's wifeas named Isabella.
m. Walter Buchanan of that ilk, 14th of Buchanan (d 1526) "
From Stirnet Genealogy athttp://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/gg/graham02.htm#link1

John + Margaret (of Drumry) Livingston. Margaret (daughter of Sir Robert (of Drumry) Livingston and Margaret) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Lawerence married Margaret before 1448. and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

1 NAME John (of that ilk) /Lundy/


Sir John Lundin of that ilk
He has been identified as father of the Robert Lundin/Lundi who marriedElizabeth/Helen Sibbald of Balgonie (see below) who was his second son.By reference to the dates, his first son is presumed to have been thefollowing John, or possibly may have been the same person.
1. John Lundin of that ilk
A. John Lundin of that ilk (a 1496)
m. (mcrt 1440) Elizabeth Lindsay
From
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/zworking/lundin1.htm#link2
at
Stirnet Genealogy
Families Database
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/genfam.htm
This has a huge amount of information on hundreds (and rapidlyincreasing), mostly landed, families in 3 categories listed below. It ismore "user friendly" than most in that it shows many generations on onepage.
I - Ancient & Mythical
II - Continental Families - Medieval & Renaissance
III - British Families - Medieval, Renaissance & Modern
(Note they also say "We will soon be offering CDs of the database forsale at a modest price.")
Sources at http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/gensourc.htm

John married Elizabeth (of Bryres) Lindsay about 21 Jan 1435. Elizabeth (daughter of John (1st Lord Lindsay of Bryres) Lindsay and Daughter B Stewart) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Elizabeth (of Douglas) Douglas. Elizabeth (daughter of Archibald (Tyneman, 4th Earl of) Douglas and Princess Margaret Stewart) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

George + Christina (of Dirleton) Halyburton. Christina (daughter of Walter (of Dirleton) Halyburton and Isabel (of Albany) Stewart) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Patrick + Ellen Wallace. Ellen and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Alexander + Marion Lauder. Marion (daughter of William Lauder and Catherine De Landelis) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

See also Stirnet Genealogy at
'Halyburton1'
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/hh4aa/halyburton1.htm#linklo
Families covered: Halyburton (Haliburton) of Dirleton, Haliburton ofHaliburton (Halyburton)

Main sources: TSP (Haliburton), BE1883 (Halyburton).
TSP = "The Scots Peerage", founded on Wood's Edition of Sir RobertDouglas's "Peerage of Scotland". Edited by Sir James Balfour Paul.Published 1908.

BE1883 = Burke's Extinct Peerage "Genealogical History of the Dormant,Abeyant, Forfeited and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire by Burke"(1883 edition).
Copies of this are held in many of the larger public libraries in the UK."

Walter married Marjory (Mary) Douglas in 1403. Marjory (daughter of Archibald (The Grim, 3rd Earl of Douglas) Douglas and Joan\Johana (of Strathearn) Moray) was born about 1377; died in 1421. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Janet (of March) Dunbar. Janet (daughter of George (9th Earl of March) Dunbar) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Walter married Janet Erskine on 24 Apr 1424. Janet (daughter of Robert (12th Earl of Mar) 1st Lord Erskine and Elizabeth Lindsay) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

James married Princess Mary Stewart in 1405. Mary (daughter of Robert III (John) Stewart King of Scotland and Annabella (of Stoball) Drummond) was born about 1380; died after 1458. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Herbert + Janet Herries. Janet (daughter of Herbert (1st Lord Herries) Herries and Mariot Carlyle) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

(Research):Was her mother Lady Margaret Douglas?

Alexander married Elizabeth Gordon on 20 Jul 1408. Elizabeth (daughter of Sir Adam (of That Ilk) Gordon and Elizabeth (Aboyne) Keith) died on 16 Mar 1437-1438. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Agnes. and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

David married Maria\ Mary De Abernethy in 1325. Maria\ (daughter of Alexander (Sir) (of That Ilk) De Abernethy) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William married Margaret (of Touchfraser) Fraser about 1347. Margaret (daughter of John (of Touchfraser) Fraser and Mary) was born before 1332; died before 1410. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

John married Isabella (De Ergadia) (of Lorn) Macdougal in 1388. Isabella (daughter of Ewen\Eoin (5th Lord of Lorn) Macdougal and Joan De Isaac) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Under "Fife", Vol 2, (# V, pages 369-380)
The Complete Peerage
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited Kingdom. Extant, Extinct or Dormant. By G. E. Cokayne. 2000,SuttonPublishing Ltd, Gloucester.

Robert married Margaret (Countess of Menteith) Graham about 1361. Margaret (daughter of John (Sir) (2nd of Abercorn) Graham and Mary (Countess of Menteith) Menteith) was born before 1334; died in 1380; was buried in Inchmahome Priory, Perthshire, Scotland. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Isabella Seton. Isabella (daughter of William (Sir) Seton of Seton) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Janet Fleming. Janet (daughter of David (Sir) (of Biggar And Cumbernauld) Fleming and Jean (of Brechin) Barclay) was born about 1312; and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Archibald married Elizabeth (of Carnwath) Somerville before 1432. Elizabeth (daughter of Sir Thomas (of Linton & Carnwath) Somerville and Elizabeth (Aboyne) Keith) was born before 1416; and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

(Note: Previously shown as daughter of John (of Carnwath) 2nd LordSomerville. The Scotts Peerage (p 332) says she was "daughter of John,third Lord Somerville of Carnwath" as does Burke's Peerage (106th Ed., p104) but that father does seem imposssible as Doug Hickling & Mr MacEwenpoint out below. Her husband dying Bef. March 1439/40 but John, the 2ndLord of Carnwath marrying firstly in July 10, 1446 and again in March1455/56, and The Complete Peerage shows John, the 3rd Lord, was born in1482 and DSP (Died with out children).

"...you show that Elizabeth Somerville, the mother of Colin (1st Earl ofArgyll) Campbell, was a daughter of John (of Carnwath) 2nd LordSomerville. There is ample evidence, much of it chronological, thatElizabeth's father was Thomas (of Linton and Carnwath) Somerville, whowas frequently called the first Lord Somerville in error. This ThomasSomerville was the grandfather of John, 2nd Lord Somerville.

Archibald/Celestin Campbell, Elizabeth's husband, died "probably before1439," according to SP 9:18. CP 1:198 says that Archibald died betweenApril 1431 and March 1440. As I explain above under part 1, ColinCampbell, the future 1st Earl of Argyll, seems to have been born about1433 as he was about 20 when he succeeded his grandfather in 1453, so hismarriage to Elizabeth must have occurred by 1432. John, 2nd LordSomerville married for the first time on 10 July 1446 (SP 8:12, CP 12,pt. 1:94), So he could not possibly have been Elizabeth's father,
having first married at least fourteen years after Elizabeth's marriageto Archibald Campbell, and long after Archibald's death.

William, 1st Lord Somerville, John's father, was born in or before 1400and was first married in 1428 or 1429 (CP 12, pt. 1:92-93),no more thanthree years before Elizabeth married
Archibald, so he could not have been Elizabeth's father, being ageneration too old. This leaves Sir Thomas Somerville, father ofWilliam, 1st Lord Somerville, as Elizabeth Somerville's probable father.Thomas Somerville was born about 1370 and married (1) Janet Stewartbefore July 1391, and (2) Elizabeth Keith, pursuant to a dispensationdated 2 November 1411. (SP 8: 7-9) Thomas's and Elizabeth's marriagelasted for 25 years, ending with her death in 1436.

The highly respected Andrew B. W. MacEwen, in his article, "The FamilyConnections of Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath," appearing in THEGENEALOGIST, Fall 1982, vol. 3, No. 2, at 131, states in note 77, at 151,that Elizabeth Somerville was the daughter of Thomas Somerville ofCarnwath, not John, Lord Somerville. MacEwen's assertion is based inpart upon the fact that Thomas Somerville of Carnwath witnessed anindenture, dated 9 July 1432, under which Sir John Scrymgeour and SirDuncan Campbell of Lochow, with the consent of the latter's son and heir,Gillaspy (Archibald), exchanged Sir Duncan's lands of Menstry for SirJohn's lands of Glassarie. This indenture is found, at 165, in vol. 2 ofHIGHLAND PAPERS (Scottish History Society Publications, 2nd series) vol.12 (1916). At 169, note 1, the editor, J. R. N. Macphail, referring toThomas Somerville's participation as a witness, commented that "ArchibaldRoy [the son of Sir Duncan] seems to have been married to his daughter."

"I pointed out above that Elizabeth Somerville must have marriedArchibald Campbell by 1432, so Elizabeth must have been born no laterthan 1416. Of course, Elizabeth and Archibald could have been marriedearlier than 1432 or Elizabeth could have been somewhat older than 16when she married. Elizabeth Keith seems to be the most likely mother ofElizabeth Somerville. Elizabeth Keith was married to Thomas Somervillefrom at least 1411 to about 1436 and they may have married earlier.Further, the first daughters of a marriage were frequently named aftertheir mothers, although the more usual practice was to name the firstdaughter after the maternal grandmother, while the third daughter tookher mother's name."

Douglas Hickling
Dhhic@comcast.com
516 Blair Avenue
Piedmont CA 94611
(August 2003)

SP = Scots Peerage
CP = The Complete Peerage by G E Cokyane

Notes:

Burke's Peerage 106th Edition page 1987 does not name his first wife.
Roddy Macdonald athttp://www.macdonald50.freeserve.co.uk/genealogy/d0002/g0000053.html#I2346
shows his first wife as Florence (of Ross) Macdonald daughterof Alexander(10 Earl Ross Lord o Isles) Macdonald Elizabeth (of Gordon) Setondaughter of Alexander (Sir) (of that Ilk 1stLord Gordon) Seton


"Alba: Celtic Scotland in the Middle Ages" by Edward J. Cowan (Editor),R. Andrew McDonald (Editor). Publisher: Tuckwell Press; (April 2001)ISBN: 1862321515
Page 220 Steve Boarman,
into print in a family history of the Stewarts of Appin. (6) The Appinhistory combined the local oral traditions evidenced by McCrombie's talewith the
authority' of manuscript accounts of the Stewarts of Appin andthe MacLarens of Ardvech. The editors of the history also had recourse tothe printed documentary sources then available for late medievalScotland. The result was a rousing, but still apparently fabulous,account which explained the origins of Stewart lordship in Appin in thefifteenth century. Agreeing with MacCombie, the Appin history assertedthat the progenitor of the Stewarts of Appin was Dougall, an illegitimateson of John Stewart, lord of Lorn. The tale narrated how, late in life,John Stewart (also known to tradition as John Mourach or Leper John)decided to marry Dougall's mother, a daughter of the MacLaren lord ofArdvech (near Lochearnhead), and retrospectively legitimise their son sothat he might succeed to the lordship of Lorn. On the morning of thewedding, as John's bride-to-be and his son approached Dunstaffnage Castlewith a MacLaren escort, banners flying and pipes playing, the Lord ofLorn received a fatal wound from an assassin, Allan McDougal. John wasmade of stern stuff, however, and if there is any substance to his bynamehe may have been long prepared for his own death and long inured tophysical suffering. In a melodramatic conclusion to the tale the oldlord, his life ebbing away, ground through the marriage ceremony in orderto secure the lordship for his son. After John's death, the Appin historyresentfully records the sweeping aside of Dougall's rights by the nakedpolitical and military power of his adversaries, notably Colin Campbell,earl of Argyll and his uncle Colin Campbell of Clenorchy, who weremarried to Dougall's legitimate sisters.' (7)

At first sight the Stewart tale seems an obvious invention, the wishfulfillment of a family whose illegitimate ancestor was rightly debarredfrom succeeding to his father's lands and title. Manuscript historiesassociated with Clan Campbell, such as the Black Book of Taymouth,provide a far more prosaic and bland account of the circumstances behindEarl Colin's acquisition of Lorn. The earl's right, we are told, restedsquarely on his marriage to Isabel Stewart, one of three daughters andco-heiresses of John Stewart, the last Stewart lord of Lorn who wasR


6. J. and D. Stewart, The Stewarts of Appin (Edinburgh 1880). The talewas obviously considerably older, for its outlines can be discerned In amanuscript *associated with Clan Campbell dating from 1756. ArgyllRecords, 9-10.
7. Stewart and Stewart, Stewarts of Appin, 73-96. The account alsoincludes four stanzas of a Gaelic poem apparently commemorating the marchof Dougall and his mother from Loch Earn to Dunstaffnage. It may besignificant that John's by- name is found only in Campbell sources.Argyll Records 9.

*"manuscript, which, based upon internal references, was apparentlywritten in 1634, based upon the writings of highland seanachies"sometimes to be keeped in Abbeys." The manuscript was copied in 1756and kept in the British Museum. The manuscript was printed in 1885 aspart of RECORDS OF ARGYLL: LEGENDS, TRADITIONS, AND RECOLLECTIONS OFARGYLLSHIRE HIGHLANDERS, by Lord Archibald Campbell. This is the samemanuscript that is quoted in THE STEWARTS OF APPIN by J. and D. Stewart,published in 1880"

Received from Doug Hickling
Dhhic@comcast.net
510-655-6896

Note Florence (of Ross) Macdonald, was previously shown as a daughter ofAlexander (10th Earl of Ross/Lord of the Isles) Macdonald and his wifeElizabeth (of Gordon) Seton.
Below from Doug Hickling
1. I have several suggestions regarding your sheet for John (2nd Lord ofLorn) Stewart ID: I37478. The first question is who was John's wife, themother of his daughters all of whom seem to have married Campbells? Youseem to cite Roddy Macdonald's website for the view that John's wife was"Florence (of Ross) Macdonald," a daughter of Alexander (10th Earl ofRoss/Lord of the Isles) Macdonald and his wife Elizabeth (of Gordon)Seton. I asked Roddy for his authority supporting this, and he respondedthat he did not remember his source as he had collected the information along time ago when he did not realize that it was important to keep trackof one's sources.

I will show that Roddy is partly right and partly wrong. There isancient authority for the view that John married "the Lord of Isles andEarl of Ross's daughter, upon whom he begot the three heretrixes." Thisinformation is contained in a manuscript, which, based upon internalreferences, was apparently written in 1634, based upon the writings ofhighland seanachies "sometimes to be keeped in Abbeys." The manuscriptwas copied in 1756 and kept in the British Museum. The manuscript wasprinted in 1885 as part of RECORDS OF ARGYLL: LEGENDS, TRADITIONS, ANDRECOLLECTIONS OF ARGYLLSHIRE HIGHLANDERS, by Lord Archibald Campbell.This is the same manuscript that is quoted in THE STEWARTS OF APPIN by J.and D. Stewart, published in 1880, to which you refer in your presentnote. Under your note 6 you say that the manuscript dates from 1756, butthe original, as I state above, dates from 1634. Despite the publicationof the manuscript and the fact that the information contained thereingenerally appears to be highly accurate, most sources, including SP andCP, have regarded the name of John's wife to be unknown, no doubtreflecting the lack of any contemporary records placing a name on hiswife.

Such a contemporary record was found in a registry of Papal recordscalled VATICAN ARCHIVES: REGISTER OF SUPPLICATIONS, available only onmicrofilm at the Scottish History Department of the University ofGlasgow. The key entry appears to be "B36. 16 November 1447. John deLorn and Fingula de Insulis. Reg. Supp., 421, 35v," as printed at 244 inACTS OF THE LORDS OF THE ISLES 1336 - 1493 (1986), edited by Jean and R.W. Munro, a copy of which is enclosed. As I understand it, the name"Fingula" is probably a Latin form of the name Flora, which is sometimeschanged to Florence in English.

This entry seems to confirm the 1634 manuscript as to the name of John'swife, but it does not state the names of Fingula/Flora's father andmother. The Munros, at 301, place Flora as a daughter, not of Alexander,but rather of his father Donald, Lord of the Isles. The Munros seem tobe correct. They are supported by chronology based upon Flora'sestimated date of birth. Flora and her husband John (of Lorn) Stewartwere the parents of three daughters. Most of the authorities, based uponthe venerable, but frequently unreliable, BLACK BOOK OF TAYMOUTH, holdthat Isabel Stewart, who married Colin Campbell, the future lst Earl ofArgyll, was the eldest daughter, but this is ruled out by chronology. InMarch 1449, John of Lorn granted Sir Colin Campbell of Glenurchy certainlands in the lordship of Lorn on account of Glenurchy's marriage to JanetStewart, John of Lorn's daughter. (SP 2: 176) Assuming that Janet'smarriage took place a few months earlier, in 1448, and that she was 16 atthe time of her marriage, her birth year would be no later than 1432.

At the time of Janet's marriage to Glenurchy in 1448, the latter'snephew, Colin Campbell, later 1st Earl of Argyll, was still a child ashe seems to have been about 20 at the death of his grandfather Sir DuncanCampbell in 1453, at about which time he married Isabel. The year ofIsablel's marriage may be deduced from the contract, dated 14 September1469, for the marriage of Marion Campbell, third child of Isabel andColin, to George, 2nd Lord Seton, Marion was at that time 12 years ofage, which means that her parents must have married about 1453. (SP 1:334, as amended SP 9: 18-19) If Isabel was 16 at the time of hermarriage in 1453, her birth year would be 1437, making her about fiveyears younger than her sister Janet. Based upon Janet's estimated birthyear of 1432, her mother Flora Macdonald would have married John of Lornno later than 1431, giving Flora an estimated birth year of about 1415.These dates demonstrate that Flora was a sister, not a daughter, ofAlexander Macdonald, lord of the Isles and later earl of Ross. In theirACTS OF THE LORDS OF THE ISLES, at 302, the Munros state that Alexander"was apparently married by 1431" and that his eldest son John "seems tohave been born c. 1434," just two years after the birth of Flora's eldestdaughter Janet.

The fact that the entry in the Register of Supplications, quoted above,is dated 1447, does not mean that Flora Macdonald and John Stewart ofLorn did not have a Celtic secular marriage in 1431 or earlier. Suchnon-canonical marriages were considered valid and the children of thesemarriages were regarded as legitimate. A problem arose, however, if themarital parties were related within prohibited degrees of consanguinityor affinity as determined by canon law. Under edicts of the LateranCouncil of 1215, even marriages between third cousins--the fourth degreeof consanguinity--were void. The children resulting from such secularmarriages were deemed illegitimate unless the parents were in good faithunaware of the canonical impediment. Further, where the marriage was notpreceded by banns, there was a presumption of bad faith. Asgreat-grandchildren of King Robert II, Flora and John were second cousinsand thus within the third degree of consanguinity.

Until the 17th century, couples who had contracted Celtic secularmarriages regularly sought papal dispensations from the impediments to aChurch marriage arising from the fact that they were related within theprohibited degree of consanguinity or affinity and either knew or werepresumed to have known of the barrier. Such dispensations appear to havebeen freely granted, particularly in Scotland, where a high proportion ofmarriages among the upper classes were between cousins. Not only did thedispensation followed by a canonical marriage serve to legitimate theparties' existing children--no small accomplishment when the parents weretrying to make certain that their offspring would enjoy full rights ofinheritance--but also it relieved the parties of the sin offornication--also an important consideration.
Douglas Hickling
Dhhic@comcast.com
516 Blair Avenue
Piedmont CA 94611
(August 2003)


"I suggest some modifications to your sheet for IDI37478. As CP, SP andevery other source I have found say, John of Lorn had only threedaughters, all by his first wife. They are (1) Janet, born about 1432,who married Sir Colin Campbell of Glenurchy; (2) Isabel, born about 1437,who married Colin Campbell, 1st Earl of Argyll; and (3) Marion, statedwithout much authority to have married Arthur Campbell of Otter."
Douglas Hickling
Dhhic@comcast.com
516 Blair Avenue
Piedmont CA 94611
(August 2003)

SP = Scots Peerage
CP = The Complete Peerage by G E Cokyane

John married Florence\Fingula\Flora (of Ross) Macdonald before 1431. Florence\Fingula\Flora (daughter of Donald (2nd\8th Lord of The Isles) Macdonald and Mary (Countess of Ross) Leslie) was born about 1415; died in 1463. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

For explanation of her parents see Notes under her husband John (2nd Lordof Lorn) Stewart, by
Douglas Hickling
Dhhic@comcast.com
516 Blair Avenue
Piedmont CA 94611
(August 2003)

Alan + Catherine Seton. Catherine (daughter of William (Sir) (of That Ilk) Seton and Janet (of March) Dunbar) died in 1424. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Alexander + Margaret (of Kilmarnock) Boyd. Margaret (daughter of Sir Thomas (5th Feudal Baron of Kilmarnock) Boyle) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Notes:

Later Gordon

Alexander married Elizabeth Crichton before 18 Mar 1426. Elizabeth (daughter of Sir William (Chancellor) 1st Lord Crichton and Agnes) died on 9 Jun 1479. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William married Beatrice Douglas before 17 Mar 1450. Beatrice (daughter of James (7th Earl of) (The Gross) Douglas and Beatrix Sinclair) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

James married Joan (of Somerset) Beaufort in 1439. Joan (daughter of John (1st Earl of Somerset) Beaufort and Margaret (of Kent) Holland) was born about 1406; died on 15 Jul 1445 in Dunbar Castle; was buried in Monastry Of Charterhouse Perth. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Archibald married Euphemia (Countess of Strathearn) Graham before 26 Apr 1425. Euphemia (daughter of Patrick (Earl of Strathearn) Graham and Euphemia (Countess of Strathearn) Stewart) died in 1468. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Malise + Marion (of Glenorchy) Campbell. Marion (daughter of Sir Colin (1st of Glenorchy) Campbell) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Thomas + Janet\Elizabeth Douglas. Janet\Elizabeth (daughter of James (1st Earl of Morton) Douglas and Joan (The Dumb Lady) Stewart) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Patrick + Jonet Cunynghame. Jonet and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

William + Anne (of Angus) Douglas. Anne (daughter of Sir George (4th Earl of Angus) Douglas and Isabel Sibbald) and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]