Notes |
- "..Joan Menteith, whom you show as the wife of Malise 7th Earl ofStrathearn and as the mother of Malise 8th Earl. The article at SP 8:251says that Joan and the 7th Earl were childless, and CP says that themother of Malise 8th Earl was the first wife of the 7th Earl and that hername is not recorded. CP 12 (part 2) 385. Joan was apparently ageneration younger than her first husband as CP as cited next above saysthat she married him around 1323 and that Malise the 8th Earl succeededhis father between 1323 and 1329.
It is true as you show that Mary of Strathearn, daughter of Malise 8thEarl of Strathearn and Marjory of Ross married John (of Drumsargard)Moray, but this marriage came too late for her to have been the mother ofSir Maurice (9th Earl of Strathearn) Moray. The SP article cited nextabove at 387-388 says that Maurice was more probably born from a priorwife of his father. It points out that Maurice was one of the Scottishleaders who in 1335 rejected terms of peace offered by Edward III. Thedate of Mary of Strathearn's marriage to Maurice was between 1319 and1322. The article concludes on this point saying she could hardly havebeen the mother of grown men in 1335. The article also points out that,when Maurice had dispensation for his marriage to Joan Menteith, Countessof Strathearn and widow of the 7th Earl, on 11 July 1339, no mention wasmade of the 7th Earl, who, if Mary was Maurice's mother, would have beenhis grandfather. I add the comment that Maurice's bride would also havebeen his stepgrandmother.
On this issue, SP 8:255-256 says that there is no evidence on which onecan validly determine the identity of Maurice's mother, and that thefacts indicate that she was probably an earlier wife of Maurice'sfather. It explains that the date of the marriage to John (ofDrumsargard) Moray can be established by the dates of various propertytransfers to him and to the heirs of Mary between 1318 and 1322. MauriceMoray is first named on record in 1335 as one of the leaders of thepatriotic party in Scotland, and he was among those who rejected terms ofpeace offered them by Edward III. A chronicler stated that in 1335,Maurice Moray slew Godfrey Ross because, through trickery, he had killedMaurice's brother in what was supposed to have been a fair fight. Itseems clear that, if Mary was Maurice's mother, he could not have beenborn until after 1318, which would have made him, at most, 16 years oldin 1335, hardly old enough to have revenged the slaying of a brother andto be serving as a political leader. Further, the article says that, on2 December 1336, King Edward Baliol of Scotland granted the barony ofDrumsargard and all the lands of Maurice de Moravia on the South of theFourth to Anthony de Lucy as Maurice was then an enemy and rebel. Thesefacts show that Maurice had probably already inherited his father'spossessions and was already a well-established landowner by 1336,indicating that he was of age and certainly not a teen-age boy.
Additionally, when Maurice obtained a dispensation in 1339 to marry JoanMenteith, she was two times a widow having married first, about 1323,Malise, seventh Earl of Strathearn. Assuming that she was 18 at the timeof her first marriage, she would have been 34 when she married Maurice.If he was about the same age as his bride, he would have been born in1305, whereas Mary of Strathearn did not marry Maurice's father until atleast 1318! In summary, the facts do strongly support the point thatMaurice's mother was an earlier unidentified wife of John (of Drumargard)Moray."
From Douglas Hickling, Dhhic@comcast.net, 516 Blair Avenue, Piedmont, CA94611. 1 February 2002
SP=THE SCOTS PEERAGE was edited by James (Sir) Balfour Paul. 9 volumes.Volume 1 published in 1904 and volume 8 in 1911. Volume 9, before 1925(includes the index)
CP= THE COMPLETE PEERAGE
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain & theUnited
Kingdom : by G. E. Cokayne (Hardcover - March 2001]
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